{"id":566,"date":"2024-05-06T06:41:33","date_gmt":"2024-05-06T06:41:33","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/ondarebizia.deusto.es\/?p=566"},"modified":"2024-05-06T08:42:36","modified_gmt":"2024-05-06T08:42:36","slug":"victoria-iglesias-errusia-1937-1956-carmen-bisabarros-errusia-ukraina-1937-1993","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/ondarebizia.deusto.es\/en\/victoria-iglesias-errusia-1937-1956-carmen-bisabarros-errusia-ukraina-1937-1993\/","title":{"rendered":"VICTORIA IGLESIAS [Errusia, 1937-1956] &#038; CARMEN BISABARROS [Errusia, Ukraina, 1937-1993]"},"content":{"rendered":"<div class=\"wp-block-media-text alignwide is-stacked-on-mobile\"><figure class=\"wp-block-media-text__media\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"300\" height=\"225\" src=\"https:\/\/ondarebizia.deusto.es\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/05\/10996940-b0f7-42f9-0568-c7aaed34fcd1_300.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-562 size-full\"\/><\/figure><div class=\"wp-block-media-text__content\"><p><strong>Date of the interview:<\/strong> 6\/27\/2015<\/p><p><strong>Interviewee:<\/strong> Victoria Iglesias Mart\u00ednez &#038; Carmen Bisabarros Abad<\/p><p><strong>Interviewer:<\/strong> Sonia Bonifacio P\u00e9rez &#038; Nerea Mujika Ulazia<\/p><p><strong>Language:<\/strong> Espa\u00f1ol \/ Gaztelania<\/p><\/div><\/div><hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity\"\/><div class=\"wp-block-group alignfull descripcion-completa is-layout-constrained wp-block-group-is-layout-constrained\" id=\"descripcion-completa\"><h3 class='wp-block-heading'>Description<\/h3><p>Victoria Iglesias y Carmen Bisabarros fueron dos de las ni&ntilde;as evacuadas a Rusia en el barco Habana el 13 de junio de 1937. Sus historias transcurren de forma paralela entre Rusia y Ucrania, hasta que posteriormente y ya de retorno en Euskadi, se conocen y establecen una relaci&oacute;n de amistad marcada por las experiencias comunes.<\/p><p><\/p><p>En el caso de Victoria, nace el 12 de febrero de 1932 en Santurce. Hija de un antiguo cabo, que posteriormente trabaj&oacute; en los Altos Hornos y de una sardinera, en 1937 embarca teniendo 5 a&ntilde;os con su hermano de 14. Recuerda c&oacute;mo el barco tuvo que sortear los bombardeos hasta llegar a Francia, donde separaron a los ni&ntilde;os a distintos destinos, como Inglaterra, B&eacute;lgica y Rusia. Victoria y su hermano son enviados a Rusia y llegan a San Petersburgo (entonces Leningrado) el 22 de junio. All&iacute;, los ni&ntilde;os son de nuevo divididos en grupos. Victoria, en el tiempo que pasa en Rusia, pasa por casas de ni&ntilde;os a las afueras de Mosc&uacute;, como la de Bolshevo, as&iacute; como por Orlovskoye, en la que coincidi&oacute; con Carmen antes de conocerse. Recuerda que, en 1941, y debido a la Segunda Guerra Mundial, todos los ni&ntilde;os fueron evacuados y llevados a Sar&aacute;tov en barco, y c&oacute;mo la guerra supuso un gran cambio en cuanto a las condiciones en las que viv&iacute;an. &ldquo;La posguerra fue muy dif&iacute;cil, porque no hab&iacute;a qu&eacute; comer, hab&iacute;a racionamiento. Pero antes de la guerra, viv&iacute;amos felices.&rdquo;&nbsp;Su hermano, sin embargo, se hab&iacute;a quedado en San Petersburgo y posteriormente se asent&oacute; en Vladimir, donde se cas&oacute;. Una vez terminada la Guerra, Victoria pudo estudiar &ldquo;T&eacute;cnico agr&oacute;nomo&rdquo;.<\/p><p><\/p><p>En 1956, las familias comienzan a buscar a sus hijos a trav&eacute;s de la Cruz Roja y Victoria regresa en diciembre de ese mismo a&ntilde;o a Euskadi, en la 4&ordf; expedici&oacute;n de repatriados. Rememora las primeras impresiones al llegar: &ldquo;Todas las ropas colgadas en los balcones. Eso nos llam&oacute; mucho la atenci&oacute;n. Dec&iacute;amos, &iquest;a d&oacute;nde hemos venido? &iquest;Qu&eacute; es esto? (&hellip;) Nos pareci&oacute; mal, como poco sano, demasiado dejado todo, no s&eacute; c&oacute;mo. Las casas estaban muy oscuras, todo negro, la gente vest&iacute;a muy oscura.&rdquo;&nbsp;Su madre y su hermana la recibieron y se traslad&oacute; a la casa familiar. Es entonces cuando se rencuentra con Jos&eacute; Antonio Lasa, el que despu&eacute;s ser&iacute;a su marido, y con el que hab&iacute;a coincidido en Rusia. Jos&eacute; Antonio no establece una buena relaci&oacute;n con su familia y se traslada a vivir a casa de Victoria, y posteriormente se casan. Unos a&ntilde;os despu&eacute;s, conocer&iacute;a a Carmen Bisabarros.<\/p><p><\/p><p>Carmen naci&oacute; el 11 de marzo de 1931 en el barrio de Santutxu, Bilbao. Ella y sus tres hermanas fueron divididas en la Guerra Civil. La mayor, Milagros, fue llevada a Eibar con su padrino. Margarita permaneci&oacute; en Santander junto con la familia de su madre y la hermana peque&ntilde;a, Julia, se qued&oacute; con su padre en Bilbao. Por su parte, Carmen, al igual que Victoria, embarcar&iacute;a en el Habana el 13 de junio de 1937, rumbo a Rusia. Dado que ten&iacute;a una salud delicada, ella fue trasladada a un sanatorio en Crimea y tambi&eacute;n permaneci&oacute; un tiempo en Odessa. Al comenzar la guerra, fue evacuada a S&aacute;ratov y posteriormente tambi&eacute;n estuvo en Orlovskoye y en Eupatoria. Carmen estudi&oacute; el bachillerato en Mosc&uacute; y tambi&eacute;n acudi&oacute; a la Universidad de Agricultura. All&iacute; conoce al que ser&iacute;a su marido, Alejandro, y en 1957 ambos se marchan a Ucrania a vivir, el pa&iacute;s del que &eacute;l proced&iacute;a. All&iacute; forman una familia y Carmen trabaja en diversas empresas, relacionadas principalmente con la industria lechera, hasta 1986, a&ntilde;o en el que se jubila. Tras fallecer su marido y uno de sus hijos, y sufriendo tambi&eacute;n las consecuencias de la tragedia de Chern&oacute;bil, en 1993 Carmen decide regresar a Euskadi, acompa&ntilde;ada de su hijo Sergio.<\/p><p><\/p><p>De su regreso, Carmen destaca la mala relaci&oacute;n con sus familiares, y tanto ella como Victoria coinciden en que es algo habitual en los retornados de Rusia. &ldquo;Hemos sufrido todos todo, bastante. Porque llegamos y, s&iacute;, parec&iacute;a que nos estaban esperando, pero no nos quer&iacute;an. El cari&ntilde;o se hace con el roce.&rdquo; &nbsp;Ambas consideran que &ldquo;la familia son las repatriadas&rdquo;, aunque debido a la edad, cada vez se juntan menos. Recuerdan que llegaban a juntarse hasta 300 repatriados. En cuanto a haber sido ni&ntilde;as de la guerra, ambas se sienten &ldquo;felices&rdquo; y se sienten agradecidas por haber podido estudiar y pasar aquellos dif&iacute;ciles a&ntilde;os en Rusia. Tambi&eacute;n consideran que han aprendido mucho y que han logrado muchas cosas gracias a su esfuerzo: &ldquo;Desde los 5 a&ntilde;os vali&eacute;ndonos por nosotros mismos. Lav&aacute;ndonos, cosi&eacute;ndonos. Nadie nos ha sacado, todo lo hemos sacado a pulso.&rdquo; <\/p><\/div>\n            <figure class=\"wp-block-embed is-type-rich is-provider-gestor-del-servicio wp-block-embed-gestor-del-servicio wp-embed-aspect-16-9 wp-has-aspect-ratio\"><div class=\"wp-block-embed__wrapper\">\n            <iframe loading=\"lazy\" title=\"Victoria Iglesias &amp; Carmen Bisabarros. Ondare Bizia\" width=\"500\" height=\"281\" src=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/embed\/TD3DltRs6QY?feature=oembed\" frameborder=\"0\" allow=\"accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share\" referrerpolicy=\"strict-origin-when-cross-origin\" allowfullscreen><\/iframe>\n            <\/div><\/figure>\n            <h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Interviewee&#8217;s distination<\/h3><div class=\"wp-block-group grupoEntrevista is-layout-flow wp-block-group-is-layout-flow\"><p><strong>Interviewee\u2019s destination city:<\/strong> Orlovskoye \/ \u041e\u0440\u043b\u043e\u0432\u0441\u043a\u043e\u0435<\/p><p><strong>Interviewee\u2019s destination country:<\/strong> Errusia \/ Rusia \/ \u0420\u043e\u0441\u0441\u0438\u044f<\/p><p><strong>Interviewee\u2019s destination region:<\/strong> Volgako Barruti Federala \/ Distrito Federal del Volga \/ \u041f\u0440\u0438\u0432\u043e\u043b\u0436\u0441\u043a\u0438\u0439 \u0444\u0435\u0434\u0435\u0440\u0430\u043b\u044c\u043d\u044b\u0439 \u043e\u043a\u0440\u0443\u0433<\/p><\/div><div class=\"wp-block-group grupoEntrevista is-layout-flow wp-block-group-is-layout-flow\"><p><strong>Interviewee\u2019s destination city:<\/strong> Odesa \/ \u041e\u0434\u0435\u0441\u0430<\/p><p><strong>Interviewee\u2019s destination country:<\/strong> Ukraina \/ Ucrania \/ \u0423\u043a\u0440\u0430\u0457\u043d\u0430<\/p><p><strong>Interviewee\u2019s destination region:<\/strong> Odesako oblasta \/ \u00d3blast de Odesa \/ \u041e\u0434\u0435\u0441\u044c\u043a\u0430 \u043e\u0431\u043b\u0430\u0441\u0442\u044c<\/p><\/div><hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity\"\/><h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Key dates<\/h3><div class=\"wp-block-group grupoEntrevista is-layout-flow wp-block-group-is-layout-flow\"><p><strong>Year:<\/strong> 1931<\/p><p><strong>Event:<\/strong> Nace Carmen Bisabarros (11 de marzo)<\/p><\/div><div class=\"wp-block-group grupoEntrevista is-layout-flow wp-block-group-is-layout-flow\"><p><strong>Year:<\/strong> 1932<\/p><p><strong>Event:<\/strong> Nace Victoria Iglesias (12 de febrero)<\/p><\/div><div class=\"wp-block-group grupoEntrevista is-layout-flow wp-block-group-is-layout-flow\"><p><strong>Year:<\/strong> 1937<\/p><p><strong>Event:<\/strong> Carmen y Victoria son evacudas a Rusia (13 de junio)<\/p><\/div><div class=\"wp-block-group grupoEntrevista is-layout-flow wp-block-group-is-layout-flow\"><p><strong>Year:<\/strong> 1939<\/p><p><strong>Event:<\/strong> Fallece la madre de Carmen<\/p><\/div><div class=\"wp-block-group grupoEntrevista is-layout-flow wp-block-group-is-layout-flow\"><p><strong>Year:<\/strong> 1941<\/p><p><strong>Event:<\/strong> Los ni\u00f1os son trasladados en barco a S\u00e1ratov por la Segunda Guerra Mundial<\/p><\/div><div class=\"wp-block-group grupoEntrevista is-layout-flow wp-block-group-is-layout-flow\"><p><strong>Year:<\/strong> 1950<\/p><p><strong>Event:<\/strong> Carmen entra a la Universidad de Agricultura de Mosc\u00fa<\/p><\/div><div class=\"wp-block-group grupoEntrevista is-layout-flow wp-block-group-is-layout-flow\"><p><strong>Year:<\/strong> 1956<\/p><p><strong>Event:<\/strong> Victoria regresa a Euskadi con la cuarta expedici\u00f3n de la Cruz Roja<\/p><\/div><div class=\"wp-block-group grupoEntrevista is-layout-flow wp-block-group-is-layout-flow\"><p><strong>Year:<\/strong> 1957<\/p><p><strong>Event:<\/strong> Carmen va a Ucrania a trabajar con su marido<\/p><\/div><div class=\"wp-block-group grupoEntrevista is-layout-flow wp-block-group-is-layout-flow\"><p><strong>Year:<\/strong> 1983<\/p><p><strong>Event:<\/strong> Carmen se jubila en Ucrania<\/p><\/div><div class=\"wp-block-group grupoEntrevista is-layout-flow wp-block-group-is-layout-flow\"><p><strong>Year:<\/strong> 1993<\/p><p><strong>Event:<\/strong> Carmen regresa definitivamente<\/p><\/div><div class=\"wp-block-group grupoEntrevista is-layout-flow wp-block-group-is-layout-flow\"><p><strong>Year:<\/strong> 2007<\/p><p><strong>Event:<\/strong> Regresan de visita a Rusia<\/p><\/div><hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity\"\/><h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Interviewee&#8217;s origin<\/h3><p><strong>Country of the interview:<\/strong> Euskadi<\/p><p><strong>Region of the interview:<\/strong> Bizkaia<\/p><p><strong>City of the interview:<\/strong> Bilbao<\/p><hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity\"\/><h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Place of the interview<\/h3><p><strong>Country of the interview:<\/strong> Euskadi<\/p><p><strong>Region of the interview:<\/strong> Bizkaia<\/p><p><strong>City of the interview:<\/strong> Gorliz<\/p><hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity\"\/><h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><\/h3><p><strong>People mentioned in the interview:<\/strong> Julia\t \tBisabarros, Margarita\t \tBisabarros, Milagros\t \tBisabarros, Dolores\t \tIbarruri\t\t\t &#8221; \tLa Pasionaria\t &#8220;, Pantale\u00f3n\t \tIglesias, Agust\u00edn\t \tLasa, Jos\u00e9 Antonio\t \tLasa, Teodoro\t \tLasa, Sof\u00eda\t \tLejarza, Vicenta\t \tLlorente, Socorro\t \tMart\u00ednez<\/p><p><strong>Places mentioned in the interview:<\/strong> Alemania\t\t\t \/ \tDeutschland, Algorta, Ameriketako Estatu Batuak\t \/ \tEstados Unidos\t \/ \tUnited States of America USA, Areeta\t \/ \tLas Arenas, Baltikoa\t \/ \tMar B\u00e1ltico, Barco Crimea, Bego\u00f1a, Belgika\t \/ \tB\u00e9lgica\t \/ \tBelgique \/ Belgi\u00eb, Bidezabal, Bilbao, Bolshevo\t\t\t \/ \t\u0411\u043e\u043b\u0448\u0435\u0432\u043e, Calatayud, Casa &#8221; El Retorno &#8221; ( Madrid ), Castell\u00f3n de la Plana\t\t\t \/ \tCastell\u00f3 de la Plana, Dardaneloak\t \/ \tDardanelos\t \/ \t\u00c7anakkale Bo\u011faz\u0131 \/ \u0394\u03b1\u03c1\u03b4\u03b1\u03bd\u03ad\u03bb\u03bb\u03b9\u03b1, Deusto, Donostia\t \/ \tSan Sebasti\u00e1n, Durango, Eibar, Errusia\t \/ \tRusia\t \/ \t\u0420\u043e\u0441\u0441\u0438\u044f, Espainia\t \/ \tEspa\u00f1a, Eupatoria \t\t\t \/ \t\u0404\u0432\u043f\u0430\u0442\u043e\u0440\u0456\u044f, Frantzia\t \/ \tFrancia\t \/ \tFrance, Georgia\t\t\t \/ \t\u10e1\u10d0\u10e5\u10d0\u10e0\u10d7\u10d5\u10d4\u10da\u10dd, Ingalaterra\t \/ \tInglaterra\t \/ \tEngland, Itsaso Beltza\t \/ \tMar Negro, Kirov\t\t\t \/ \t\u041a\u0438\u0440\u043e\u0432, Krimea\t \/ \tCrimea\t \/ \t\u041a\u0440\u0438\u043c, Kuba\t \/ \tCuba, Madril\t \/ \tMadrid, Mosku\t \/ \tMosc\u00fa\t \/ \t\u041c\u043e\u0441\u043a\u0432\u0430, Najabino (?), Obninskoye, Odesa\t\t\t \/ \t\u041e\u0434\u0435\u0441\u0430, Ordesa, Orlovskoye\t\t\t \/ \t\u041e\u0440\u043b\u043e\u0432\u0441\u043a\u043e\u0435, Ortuella, Pasai San Pedro\t \/ \tPasajes San Pedro, Portugal, R\u00edo Dni\u00e9per, Saltacaballos, San Petersburgo ( antigua Leningrado )\t\t\t \/ \t\u0421\u0430\u043d\u043a\u0442-\u041f\u0435\u0442\u0435\u0440\u0431\u0443\u0440\u0433, Santander, Santurtzi, Saparosie (?), Sar\u00e1tov\t\t\t \/ \t\u0421\u0430\u0440\u0430\u0442\u043e\u0432, Semashko, Tarasovka\t\t\t \/ \t\u0422\u0430\u0440\u0430\u0441\u0456\u0432\u043a\u0430, Turkia\t \/ \tTurqu\u00eda\t \/ \tT\u00fcrkiye Cumhuriyeti, Txina\t \/ \tChina\t \/ \t\u4e2d\u534e\u4eba\u6c11\u5171\u548c\u56fd, Ukraina\t \/ \tUcrania\t \/ \t\u0423\u043a\u0440\u0430\u0457\u043d\u0430, Valencia, Vapor Habana, Vlad\u00edmir\t\t\t \/ \t\u0412\u043b\u0430\u0434\u0438\u043c\u0438\u0440, Volga ( ibaia \/ r\u00edo )<\/p><hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity\"\/><p><strong>Categories:<\/strong><ul class=\"post-categories\"><li><a href=\"https:\/\/ondarebizia.deusto.es\/en\/category\/adaptation\/\" title=\"Adaptation\">Adaptation<\/a><\/li><li><a href=\"https:\/\/ondarebizia.deusto.es\/en\/category\/arrival-and-welcome\/\" title=\"Arrival and welcome\">Arrival and welcome<\/a><\/li><li><a href=\"https:\/\/ondarebizia.deusto.es\/en\/category\/childhood-youth\/\" title=\"Childhood\/Youth\">Childhood\/Youth<\/a><\/li><li><a href=\"https:\/\/ondarebizia.deusto.es\/en\/category\/education\/\" 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href=\"https:\/\/ondarebizia.deusto.es\/en\/category\/second-world-war\/\" title=\"Second World War\">Second World War<\/a><\/li><li><a href=\"https:\/\/ondarebizia.deusto.es\/en\/category\/spanish-civil-war\/\" title=\"Spanish Civil War\">Spanish Civil War<\/a><\/li><li><a href=\"https:\/\/ondarebizia.deusto.es\/en\/category\/temporary-visits\/\" title=\"Temporary visits\">Temporary visits<\/a><\/li><li><a href=\"https:\/\/ondarebizia.deusto.es\/en\/category\/the-war-children\/\" title=\"The war children\">The war children<\/a><\/li><li><a href=\"https:\/\/ondarebizia.deusto.es\/en\/category\/values\/\" title=\"Values\">Values<\/a><\/li><\/ul>","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Date of the interview: 6\/27\/2015 Interviewee: Victoria Iglesias Mart\u00ednez &#038; Carmen Bisabarros Abad Interviewer: Sonia Bonifacio P\u00e9rez &#038; Nerea Mujika [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":562,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"site-sidebar-layout":"default","site-content-layout":"","ast-site-content-layout":"default","site-content-style":"default","site-sidebar-style":"default","ast-global-header-display":"","ast-banner-title-visibility":"","ast-main-header-display":"","ast-hfb-above-header-display":"","ast-hfb-below-header-display":"","ast-hfb-mobile-header-display":"","site-post-title":"","ast-breadcrumbs-content":"","ast-featured-img":"","footer-sml-layout":"","ast-disable-related-posts":"","theme-transparent-header-meta":"","adv-header-id-meta":"","stick-header-meta":"","header-above-stick-meta":"","header-main-stick-meta":"","header-below-stick-meta":"","astra-migrate-meta-layouts":"default","ast-page-background-enabled":"default","ast-page-background-meta":{"desktop":{"background-color":"var(--ast-global-color-4)","background-image":"","background-repeat":"repeat","background-position":"center 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